“I’m pleased the Pope managed to use the word ‘evil’ when apologising to native Canadians for the Church school which abused thousands of native Canadian children who had been taken away from their parents by the Government; but not pleased with the absence of any action that recognises the seriousness of these crimes. What do you think Jesus?“

“Francis is a good man. I’m not sure if anyone can be a good Pope. The power and wealth of the Vatican is an insult to me and to all true believers. Yes, there are other denominations – such as the Orthodox Church that supports Putin- which are just as corrupt, but the world-wide sway of Rome is unique. Francis is always swimming against the tide, poor man.”

“You don’t have to go very far back into the history of the Church of Scotland, my church, to find Christian ministers who wanted to make Catholics second -class citizens, so we can’t pretend to any great goodness, although we don’t have a hierarchy to lead us into temptation.

“Protestant churches have often made me ashamed, but the deliberate abuse of children by clergy and religious orders is a special class of wickedness, as it violates my character and my explicit instructions.”

“Did you not foresee the wickedness of the church?”

I taught – and showed- powerlessness and persuasion yet it didn’t take long before it was all about power and command. I don’t think I can be blamed.”

“Still you told your disciples to spread your teachings round the world. You ought to have been able to predict problems. Anything big is likely to seek power.”

“I didn’t tell them to spread my teaching round the world. That was down to Paul and others, who thought they were establishing communities of love and peace, in the midst of the Roman Empire,”

“Their endurance outlasted the Empire, but its power corrupted their humility, so we have bishops, archbishops and popes. And Hagia Sophia and St. Peter’s.”

“And wee boys and girls beaten, abused and humiliated by people representing me.”

“So, if an apology is not enough what would be?”

“‘Roman’ is an assertion of power, it has to go. Archbishops, bishops and popes are an assertion of power, they have to go. Cardinals are an assertion of power, they have to go. Fancy clothes and symbols of office are an assertion of power, they have to go. Churches and Cathedrals that cost millions to maintain are an assertion of power, they have to go. And that applies to your lot as well. The church and its full -time servants have to be poor. That’s how it began.”

“That’s not going to happen, is it?”

“Maybe not, although there are some churches where it’s already happening. And it should be preached as my message.”

“I’ll do my best.”

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